I actually didn't do coding until the second year In my 2nd year, I had a senior I saw her name in the notice board, as she got job in vipro. And to join vipro was like my dream Because i got to know from my seniors, that they give you mtech degree with job From bits pilani, And i was like good that they will give me free degree with job I asked my teachers about which companies are going to come Then we used to go to different colleges, we used to sit there, students from different colleges used to come there some students were more confident then us, because they had done projects, coding, and we didnt did anything So fine now you are in tcs, tell us about your journey, your growth in terms of knowledge and salary So lets talk about salary, which most people wants to know So, whatever was my 1.8, so every year i rounded off that my package will increase 1 lakh every year So it was 1.8 then it will increase 2.8, 3.8, 4.8.
So likewise after 5.5 years it will be around 6-7 LPA My preparation, I left itcs after 5 years, but it was clear that i'm gone and have to serve for 3month service notice before these 3 months, there's preparation and interviews so when I started after 5 years, I did lead core on regular basis Hi everyone, Today we have Jitanshu Champ, he sttarted his career from TCS you would've heard 3.3LPA, Jitanshu's was 1.8LPA Reason being he BCS and not Btech Currently he's working in Microsoft, he'll not tell the CTC but he's SDE2 at Microsoft The journey is really interesting, so lets start with, Jitanshu How are you Very well. Tell us your percentage in 12th and the reason for it In 10th I got 9CGPA, so I though I could do anything I gained that confidence My friends told me we can do both Medical and Non Medical and I had to something unique There's a wave in India some in medical and some in non medical, I wanted to do something different so took both I am the only one doing both in my school I didn't had the option to do maths and bio together So I did ,maths over bio and scored 60% with self study ohkk, in service base companies its a criteria that below 60% they donn't allow right? RIGHT, the big companies in india like TCS, Infosys, Wipro, Tech Mahindra the criteria is 60% for all if you've got below 60 then ypu can't even get in TCS Is it same for product based also like Microsoft and others NO, in these companies percentage doesn't matter but knowledge does Tell us about your college journey, you did BCA? YES what was the reason? I had 2 reasons, first was financial reasons as Btech was a costlier than BCA So I didn't find it worth it to do Btech I talked to some friends, they told through BCA too you can come into IT sector after BCA you can do MCA, my brother too did MCA I thought I'll do BCA then MCA and after that job How was the college?? TIER3? Yes it was.
How was the culture? they did coding? No, everyone were businessman people, everyone has a shop in the city they knew graduation was just name they'll sit in shop after graduation, their shop! we'll just count the money So there was no culture for coding but I had some senior friends whom I had contact due to which I was connected to the technical field how was the scenario of placements? Did companies come? No, no good companies came to college For joint placements we went to other colleges, I myself went to other college 60-80km far not just me, many students came from different cities so we gave interviews and from them students were chosen with whole campus Now tell us about your coding journey, when you started it and what all you did? I did no coding till 2nd year I saw a senior's name in notice whom I knew and she got job in Wipro going in Wipro was my dream I got to know from my seniors that they make you do Mtech also from Bits Pilani I was like its good as we get free Degree..FREE? YES free but the degree was for 4 years My rule was clear, get master's degree go into Wipro.
I will do it I was in regular contact with the senior it was her final year so she was giving interviews in different colleges through this I got confidence that we can get job with BCA too before this I was like BCA was just for name I'll do MCA then Wipro then job I got hope from this and then started from 2nd year I asked from the senior what you did? From where? I got to know about HackerRank kinda websites then slowly started questions of arrays and strings I got used to with the coding environment before this we used to write the codes in exams and other stuffs not on computers How was the environment during the placements period You had the confidence? which companies you sat for? tell us the journey when I was going to be in final year I was already prepared I talked with senior, she said from the starting try talk to placement officer of college tell him to bring companies or ask if any company has come or not as nothing matters to him, you yourself have to ask ask different college if any company is arriving, so I was very active due to this I was made the placement coordinator, as I was very curious I used to know which company is going to come so I tell it to other students to go that college but they were businessman people so not serious about that BUT, I HAD TO ENTER IT INDUSTRY I'll do something IT related, I was clear with it I used to go ask teachers about the company and how it goes? So we used to go to other colleges, there were students from other colleges also some student's confidence was way high since they had done projects, coding and we did nothing but when I gave the interview, it was clear for 5companies like TCS, Wipro, Infosys, Tech Mahindra, Accenture, I cleared them all the one I gave interviews, I cleared them I didn't get any other options other than these 5 were cleared I had to Wipro since it gave free degree I didn't do Btech but still I'll have Mtech So I analyzed it that what are the benefits and stuff in these 5options I used to parents this is an offer letter, dad used to say stop it only one job you have to do but what I had the motivation was the senior I told she cleared 12 interviews!! and she was the university topper and we 60% students, there's difference but still she gave me motivation its one thing, get a person that can do which'll make us confident.
Ask what they do and how Before heading forward, I have a information for you all from CRIO.DO its an experienced learning platform where you can learn while doing industry level projects where you learn while working on industry level programs. You have a fellowship program here, in which things are covered from the absolute basic level. First of all, programming language fundamentals, after data structures and algorithms, those too will be covered in detail then comes developers fundamental, after that you make projects, real world projects, and at the end, you have mock interviews, resume building, and placements. So it is a placement guarantee program, where they take your placement guarantee, and the average package here is 11 LPA, and packages go up to 40 LPA here. So, it is great program for both of the people, first those, who are looking for a switch, or are trying for a salary hike, and second, those who want to come from Non IT to IT field. So I'll tell you a couple of things, first of all, you will get a proper doubt support here, second, you will have webinars through industry experts, and third, you will have 1:1 mentorship, again through those who are working in industry, in very good companies.
So, it is a very good program, link is in the description, for the free class, definitely you can register and check it out. Okay, let's move on in the video. Okay, so when you got 5 offers on the table, then how did you choose TCS from that? Just 2 months before going, I was fixed, that I was going in Wipro, Okay.
You get M.Tech from BITS PILANI, you get a job, but when I analysed things, at that time I got to know, the offer letter in Wipro had that I would have a "Student Computer Science" tag, That is when you join, and even if you don't get the M.Tech, even then you would remain a student? You have to get the M.Tech, that is such their program, So you have to get M.Tech, so for 4 years you would have a designation of "Student Computer Science" would that matter? It would matter that, if you quit in the middle, then you won't have any experience letter or anything, second, that 4 years course, completing it would take around 5 years, in an ideal scenario, and for 5 years you would get stuck, In Wipro, if you leave in the middle, then the course too would be left, so I did not wanted to take such a big risk for 5 years. And, in which the degree is important, that is with you. Then I saw other offers, that had a TCS offer, in TCS, they were hiring me as a full time employee, plus they were giving me options, you can do masters degree, MCA, and at that point I thought, I had done BCA, MCA looks more suitable, compare to M.Tech, I don't want to tell everybody how I got the M.Tech, why I got it, doing MCA, it looks like a patter, first BCA, then I did MCA, so I was like it is still a masters degree, and they provide it from Shashtra University, from Tamil Nadu, so it is a good university from there.
Okay, so I would to ask another thing, was this compulsory to do too? No, it was not compulsory in TCS. In TCS, if you want to do, you can do, otherwise you can skip. So, if you leave that course in the middle, you are still a full time employee, but if you leave TCS in the middle, would that course be void too? Course would be void too.
It would get void? Right. Okay, so basically if you go in that program, MCA is for two years, for three years, then for three years, you are working in the company. Absolutely. So, when I compared, Wipro, Tech Mahindra, their M.Tech program Tech Mahindra also has M.Tech right? Yes, Tech Mahindra also provides same What about in Accenture? There wasn't in Accenture, Accenture, Infosys did not provide it, They don't provide. Accenture and Infosys were giving higher package than TCS How much? 2.1, so in TCS I was getting 1.8 It was a difference of 30 lakhs? That was a difference of 30 lakhs, but that point was, I was not getting education, I would have gotten stuck at BCA for many years. So, it was that, I've done studies right now if I study along right now, then it will be achieved, if there's a gap then I won't be able to continue.
Okay, then you came in TCS, now tell us about the journey in TCS, how was your growth, both in terms of knowledge and in terms of salary, tell us both. Okay, first let's tell about the salary, because that's what mostly everyone wants to hear. So, the 1.8 that I had, every year, I calculate a round-off figure, every year the package would increase by 1 lakh, so from 1.8 to 2.8, 3.8, 4.8 so if for 5 and a half years, it would go around 6-7. Around 6-7? When you left from there
you had a CTC around 6-7.
– Right. Now, you have many options leaving TCS, I've heard that, I have never experienced it but I have heard it from many of my friends, that they put you on bench, gives projects for testing, it's difficult to get for development, what is that scenario? Okay, so the program in which I got selected, that is TCS Ignite program, which is for candidates of B.Sc and BCA. Then you had a less CTC? Yes, 1.8, For B.Tech, CTC is 3.5 ? For the last 15 years, that's what it is. They are not increasing it.
– That's constant.
So first of all, I might have not even known about TCS program, I got Wipro's offer letter, with the job and degree, I got from Tech Mahindra, so I was googling, is there another company which provides degree with the job? So, from Quora's post I got to know that there's a TCS Ignite program, then I googled their websites and all, then I applied on them, so that was a program of 1 years, they would give you small tasks, sometimes they would tell you to make a page for website, sometimes there's a coding test, they would make you do it, they would perform you little tasks for whole 1 year, in my final year. So you've actually done that? Yes, I have done this, they would perform you little things, there might be some projects ongoing, so they would they would ask us to click a few pictures of good places in your city they would make us do such things, we realised later that we are internally doing something, that was like that, but they would make us do such small things, and it was an engaging program, other companies would come in the last semester, or one semester before, interview you, take a test, hire you, or no hire, that's the system.
In this program, for 1 year they got a performance graph then all India they selected 500 students. Does this program still run? Yes it is still there, right now, this test is done through iON, so on the basis of that, the top 500 ones are placed here.. Still it is 500? Still 500. They cater only 500 at a time, so it's an L&D centre and it is a sole L&D centre in which there's a training of 6 months. In rest of them? Rest, the B.Tech ones have 3 months training, in Trivandrum, there only. In this BCA specific particular program it teaches us everything, whether it be the latest technologies, whether it's cyber security, app development, web development, All these things in 6 months? They teach you all these things, they make you an all rounder in all the things, that if in the future, in TCS you had your training, after training, TCS is in many different places, so they will post you anywhere, so you must have enough skills that you get place in some project.
Okay. They say they have a web development project, you can say that I've done that, if you let me, I'll do it more better, so you have good knowledge. Every company has some consultancy type projects on development, support Of testing. Right, testing, so it depends what your luck is, and at that time what the requirement is in that city. Okay, then how did you think of switching after 5&half years, how did you switch, tell us about it's journey. Okay, so it was not like I had not given interviews, in those 5&half years, I used to give interviews, when I had the 1 lakh package, I used to give interviews and keep the offer letter of 3-4 lakhs, but I never switched, then when I had 3 lakh package, I got offer letter for 6 lakhs, I got it and I dropped them, I did not join them, the reason was that I did find it worth to leave TCS for 3 or 6 lakhs.
Okay. Because you get a brand name, you get a stability in job, plus I was doing MCA, I couldn't leave for 3 years, but it was that I was keeping myself up to date in those 3 years by giving interviews. Because it was not like I would start after 3 years that there would be such a gap. You have to give interviews so that you know what's the process of giving interviews. That too gets updated with time. Absolutely, when I used to give in the starting, there weren't so much DS Algo questions, now those are trending, they ask you DS Algo, system design, they won't ask you about core technology.
It's very rare. They would say, you will get the technology, They would teach you technology. Technology that is right now, is not what's tomorrow so they also know that technology keeps changing rapidly but if the person is a problem solver, then they would hire them. So, that's the point, that I also discuss with my friends, if you become a developer, you made something whether a website, or an app, then you get to know about a whole life cycle, how an app is made, you know where UI is designed, you know there's a click listener, an API Call, and parsing, when you understand these things, then whether you make a react application, whether android, iOS, whether working on web, core is same for everyone, you just have to search for syntax.
So which company was that, whose offer you took, how much was CTC? Okay, so the company I joined was Fynd, that was India's second startup in which Google invested, Okay. So, I researched about it, and I thought that there is something in the company, and the projects they were working on, earlier one of my friend had gone to in that company, my roommate, so I heard from him about that company. I got three times more package here than TCS. You told me, I forgot, 15.. 18. – 18 was the CTC. And at that time I got to know that there's something called fixed salary, because this was all fixed, So this was fixed, 18 was your base? Yes, this was fixed, earlier from this, I didn't even know this fixed salary concept in TCS there's CTC, you have 6, 7 lakh CTC, but you only know your in hand. So, it's good to say it is this much, but it is not like that, that's a fact. But, the startups or product based companies, they literally fix your money, they say they will give you this much and you get exactly that.
Okay, tell me another thing, how did you approach this company, through Linkedin, or there's something called Naukri did you do it on that, how did you approach it? Okay, so I used to apply on a lot of websites, to be precise, I remember for Fynd, there's an angel website, For startups? Right, it's for startups, everyone lists their startup there, I applied through there and I got from there. You got an interview call? Right. Did you prepare for that? Yes, for preparation, I left TCS after 5&half years, but after 5 years, I was clear that I am going to leave, but if you want to go then you also have to serve a 3 months notice period, because, and if you want to serve 3 months, before that you have to prepare, give interviews, for 3 months, so when I started after 5 years, I started leetcode, on a regular basis, solve one question daily, that creates a lot of impact, because until you are not doing it, till then you won't be able to grow, you have a set of mind, you know, you know how to create an app, during creating that app, you might not have needed it, leetcode, the logics, because you were making applications of a level in which they were not required, in the future, there won't be such similar apps, you might have to work in the core, like I was creating android apps, it might be that I have to work on android's framework might be, if I went to Oneplus or anywhere, they would tell you to work on framework, there only those things will work, for that you have to grow I followed the patter in which I will daily do one question on leetcode you can say I had flexibility in TCS, that I have some time, which you can give yourself for your growth, because even during MCA I took some time to study, so I had a habit of studying, then I did questions, and gave a ton of interviews, that is, at least apply in 20-30 companies daily, and you won't get a call from everyone, if you apply in 100, you will get call from 1, Alright.
That's what I had, when I applied on Linkedin or wherever, so it was used to be like this. And then I started giving interviews, first I got cleared in coginizant, so I cleared cognizant, they gave me an offer for 13 lakh, they had doubled whatever TCS had, and I was happy in that, I got that, at that time, I had Fynd's interviews going on, there's a 5 round system in Fynd you will have proper DS Algo rounds, after DS you are asked about core, so they have a good patter, and to clear theirs I first cleared some more, so that my confidence is built up too.
Because you don't directly clear it, you have to give interviews so that you come in that mindframe, so that when the person in front asks you a question, when they ask you about time complexity, then you shouldn't get anxious on how to get time complexity. Until you don't practice, till you don't give 10 interviews, you won't clear the 11th one. That's my rule, I have given them, because of that reason. How much time did you spend in this company? Around 6 months. 6 months and you went to Microsoft directly, did you apply in Microsoft yourself or were you approached from there? So basically, I did not have much idea about the switch, I told you that, when I joined Fynd, I thought of it as long term, that I would remain here and learn, and if I leave it I will leave it for FAANG.
When I was in Fynd, I got offers from other startups, BharatPe and all, but I wanted, no, right now I won't go in any startup, if I have cleared Fynd after TCS, it's a good switch, so there must be some company to go after Fynd because of which I am leaving Fynd, because, the things that I learned in Fynd, the growth I got there, or the environment I got, the managers I used to work with, they had no idea what we were doing in the code, In TCS? In TCS, they never did much code reviews, I did not get much great comments in PR requests.
Basically those were people's managers. Right, that's the point. But in Fynd, they were technical managers, if you are doing something, first of all, they have already done that, they have already made apps, they know how an app works, so you can't make them fool, like you said in TCS, this thing is not possible, so they don't have an option, they will ask another one, if even they said no then they won't ask. So, when I went there, there used to code reviews, they would tell me points, you can improve here, why are writing this for loop, there's no need for a for loop, so I was habitual of writing those things in TCS, so I started improving those things, after that my focus was that, I am checking a PR four times before giving it, so that they don't find something to tell me, I learned a lot from that, now I check after code, is it proper, is it production ready or not? That is very important.
Then how did Microsoft come into picture, did you apply yourself or were you approached by someone? What was the process? Okay, for Microsoft I was actually applying in big companies, after coming in Fynd, I did not apply much in small companies the earlier ones had my resume so they called me, that's different, but I never applied myself. I had applied in Google, Facebook, or in Microsoft, my interview got shortlisted in Microsoft, and they said they will schedule it, I was getting good projects, from my domain, I have worked in Android IOS.
When did you get to know what projects you were getting, did you knew before the process, which teams are available, or did you get to know after the process? I knew before the process because I had applied for a particular team's project, Where did you apply? On their career website. You applied on Microsoft's career website. I remember I had applied for the same project one year ago. In Microsoft? In Microsoft, but I was at TCS then, and I did not get shortlisted then, now I was in Fynd, applied in the same place, and I got shortlisted. Okay, there's one very important thing here, give your resume to me, so that I can share it with everyone, because many people are like, "How to make the resume?" if they have worked at a service based, how that resume should be, so they will get a good idea from that.
When did you start preparing, did you study extra DSA or did you study extra for android because you had told the profile was going to be android. What did you do extra? For how much time. Okay, so DS Algo is a continuous process, it's not like, you have to do it only when you apply for a company, I started during Fynd, but after that I used to take interviews in Fynd, I used to interview people, question them, so before asking them, I should know what I am about to ask them. So that when they ask a doubt I can clear it. So because of that, my preparation was on regular basis. For DSA. So that was very clear. For android and IOS, the role for which they were hiring me, for that I had worked, but I was going in it's core how those things work internally. We know in the upper layer, how things are working internally we should know what raw image formats we are getting, what things are working, if we know that, then it gets a little easy. So that is how you prepared, how much time did you take for preparation? Around 1 month.
And how long did the process last, how many rounds were there? I had 5 rounds, and the whole process got completed in 1 month. Until the result, it took 1 month? For the result, you can add 5 more days, but mostly all, Yes it got quick, because my first interview was not that good, I thought maybe, the next one might not come. I thought like that. But I got it, it was not like that I did not clear in the first, I did code, that is 8 out of 10 test cases were passed, the whole DSA part. But when the second interview came, that got over very quickly and my conversation with the interviewer went very positive, and after that interview my process got forwarded fast, my interviews are scheduling quickly, I am talking with manager, recruiter is saying that they are speeding up because the second one gave a very good feedback, so because of that, my next rounds were scheduled very fast, then it got completed, around 1 week I got the offer letter.
Great. Okay, can you tell me how much from those 5 rounds were DSA and how much were for android and the managerial rounds? Okay, first two rounds were of DSA, next two rounds were system design and last was managerial. System design was android specific or was it normal? It was normal system design, You did not have any android specific round? No, there were no android specific but it was like your DSA part completed after that they would ask few set of questions, they just wanted to know whether you have worked in real or not.
Just for their clarity. Because their main in DS Algo, if you have that, then we will teach you the other things, but still they ask you a little bit, whether you know about core or not. Besides I'll tell you guys, Jitanshu's profile's role is of SDE 2 that's why there was system design involved in this. In SDE 1 you don't have system design, they don't ask you. So, currently he is working on android and IOS both together, and how are you feeling here, is there anything different? Obviously it will be different from TCS, is it different than Fynd? Okay, so it is different, every place has its aura, it's environment, the environment in TCS was also very good, I enjoyed a startup culture in Fynd which is working on a fast pace, in TCS it's a process, if you even want a thing, that's a 3 months process, you applied today, you will get excess in after 3 months, you will get the system in 3 months, it's not like that in startups, if you want something today in startups, you will get it in a week, so that you work quickly you have to quickly made POCs, you have to check feasibility fast, there wasn't a long heirarchy there you are directly talking to your manager, and they are directly deploying it, in TCS, there are approvals, corporate level approvals, testing and all, it's a very long process, and it's time consuming.
Microsoft will have somewhere in the middle, there will be some process but not so slow development. Right, so print wise is going on in Microsoft, it is fixed, that we have to launch features, and if there are some issues during that, then we have to fix those and submit, so it's a good process, plus the work culture that Microsoft has, that is very good.
Work life balance.. Work life balance is good, you work happily, you don't feel like you have a burden From when I joined, we are working, it's fun, you are doing new things, you are doing things which you don't find by googling, you literally have to R&D for that. Normally when I was in TCS or wherever first we used to Google, few stack overflow links came somewhere we used to find the solution, now we are doing things which are not readily available online. Absolutely. So you have to understand the core, how things are working how are doing those things. Great, so it's going good in Microsoft, it's fun. Okay, else Jitanshu, there are people who join TCS, Infosys, Wipro, and all and somewhere they get demotivated that why we did not get a bigger company or we will get stuck in this for a long time, there's a bond, what would you like to say for them? So, for that I'll basically say this, the companies that there are, no company is bad, first of all, in your college if there are 100 students or 1000, whichever company, however big, that comes won't take the 1000, whether it's Google, Microsoft, Amazon, they will just take maximum 5-10 students then who are thinking about the rest of the students? For the rest of the students, the Indian companies because now everyone's household needs food, everyone wants to do job, everyone wants money.
Now if everyone's thinking that we will go in FAANG, then it might be possible but it's not like that everyone of you will go there, some will go after college, some after an year, or two, and maybe some take 5 years, your luck should be good, if you are going in any company, if you got in TCS or Infosys, there's a possibility that you get a good project, at least you should make efforts, you should learn things because everything is available online, you have to look, for things, nobody will serve you on a platter, do these 4 questions, this is what will be asked in the interview, you'll pass it. That doesn't happen, you have to learn regularly, you have to grow, besides going in TCS or Infosys is not a bad thing, I have gone there and I had fun, I've been to Australia, went onsite through TCS, I got my masters degree in TCS, I have worked on all the latest technologies, AR/VR, android IOS, I got all the things that you get in a product based company, except for money.
Except for money, and that did not trouble Jitanshu very much. Yes, because when I passed out from college, I did not have knowledge, I was completely blank, I was like, whatever you make me do, even if they had put me in testing, I would have done that, if they had put me in UIX, I would have done that, I got unity, AR/VR, then I did android IOS, so my luck was good and I got opportunities, but for those opportunities I was learning, I was doing something. I've seen this, I had heard Jitanshu's journey, so first he did his MCA along with TCS, and now he is in Microsoft, do you know what he is doing now? He is now doing M.Tech, he is doing M.Tech from BITS PILANI, so there's no stopping, when you reach a stage, you do not yourself be stagnated at that point that we have now achieved, now let's stop.
We shouldn't stop, we have to keep learning, because you are at a stage right now, you are satisfied, but tomorrow you will get better opportunities, but for that you have to be active, coming in Microsoft, I might not require this M.Tech now, even if I have to go somewhere else, but I doing this degree just because that's the degree that Wipro was offering me after BCA for 4 years, right now I am doing the same degree for 2 years. And now I have 2 degrees, MCA and now M.Tech. So, the things that we want to do get done in the future, I might have thought sometime, I saw big companies coming, so even I will go in one of those company, so we reached slowly but reached, I had thought I would do M.Tech in Wipro, I could no do there but I am doing now, He is doing it after coming in Microsoft.
Okay Jitanshu tell me another thing, your surname 'Champ', who named it? My parents for the sake of rhyming with Himanshu I was named Jitanshu, but this was not easily pronounceable for people in my school, college, so I named myself 'Champ', 'Champ' is from when John Cena in WWE used to come, he had a dialogue, 'The Champ is here' so I took 'Champ' from there and joined it with my name and everywhere Jitanshu 'Champ' is working, Do they call you that in office? Yes, everyone that know me, and it does make an effect, it is personal to me, that name is carried with you, so you definitely do get motivation, It was amazing talking with you, got a lot to learn, and do come again on the channel Yes, absolutely.
With some new topic, Absolutely, I'll come. With some new topic. But, I'll tell one last thing to everyone, that whatever you are doing, whichever company you are in, whichever field you are in, you have to become a pro in that. If you are doing Testing/QA, manual testing then learn automation, grow. There's money in that too, there's money in everything. So, there are many, UIX, there's much growth in their field, you can see any big company, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, even they require those people, UIX designers, Microsoft, or QA, so you can grow in that field too, but with a positive mindset, all of you are doing something something is always better than zero, when I joined TCS, it did not matter to me how much they were paying me, it was to me that I am going to get knowledge, that is priceless, the priceless knowledge that I got, I am getting it's value now. I did not get it then, Positive mindset, continuous learning, and you will growth automatically.
Definitely. So thanks a lot Jitanshu for coming here and sharing all this information with us. Even I liked it very much. It was fun. So we'll meet again. Sure, definitely..